Q&A with Jill Schnarr
Beyhan Zor (MBA for TELUS ’23) interviews Jill Schnarr (MBA for TELUS ’17) in part one of this four-part series celebrating women alumnae of the MBA for TELUS now in senior leadership roles. Schnarr is chief social innovation, communications & brand officer and Zor is manager, products & services at TELUS.
The award-winning MBA for TELUS is a custom MBA in Strategic Leadership developed by the Gustavson School of Business for telecommunications client TELUS. Students are TELUS team members who are nominated to UVic by TELUS.
Beyhan Zor: So pleased to sit down with you today, Jill! Let’s get started. You were part of TELUS' inaugural MBA cohort. Why is this program unique and what was the experience like for you?
Jill Schnarr: We've all been very fortunate with the TELUS MBA to have our CEO [Darren Entwistle] so integrated into the program and be one of the main drivers behind it. He saw this unbelievable opportunity to drive innovation, learning and development in the organization. I was actually sitting on the MBA advisory committee where we were reviewing everyone's applications and I thought I should pull myself off of this because I want to be a part of this program. I think that was one of the most pivotal moments in my life. The program is so beneficial in the sense that you can integrate it into your daily job because it's about TELUS. You can do the assignments and the case studies and integrate with your team. There's a lot of work, don't get me wrong, but it's not like you're doing it in some other separate organization or for a separate academic institute where it’s not integrated into everything you do.
Then, after getting into the program it was really important to me to do well because I'd been given this opportunity and I really wanted to showcase that I was taking it seriously. So, I was really happy to be top of the class at the end of the program. I think having those results relayed back to TELUS was also important because it's one thing to finish the program, but it's another when you are able to achieve those results. Completing the program gives you credibility in the sense that people see you with an MBA now--they actually almost look at you differently. Also you have more confidence because of the training and education. Those two things together build a culture for you to go back into the organization and say more, do more, drive more because you now feel like you have the permission to do it.
I also strongly believe in everything that we're doing in Social Purpose today. At TELUS we believe that good business and doing good go hand in hand and we’re committed to leveraging our technology to drive social change and enable remarkable human outcomes. By embedding purpose into everything we do throughout the organization we were able to prove how foundational and instrumental it is to TELUS as a brand and as part of our reputation.
And I believe all these played a critical role in my career journey and role as Chief Social Innovation, Communications and Brand Officer, reporting to the CEO.
BZ: You were in your vice president role when you finished your MBA and took on your current role as Chief Social Innovation, Communications and Brand Officer a few years later. How did your MBA help you progress in your career?
JS: As a corporate-endorsed program the MBA program is not only beneficial to TELUS – because we're training people to have this mindset and to give people that much deeper business knowledge – but it's also so beneficial to the people that take the program. Personally, I think completing the program enabled me to be seen as part of the executive leadership team. Perhaps without that education, background, history and participation in the inaugural cohort I may have encountered more challenges.
BZ: Can you tell us a bit more about what motivated you to pursue an MBA?
JS: I had always wanted to do my MBA. I did my business undergraduate at Western University and I'd always intended to go back at some point to do my MBA. But life and work takes over and it becomes that much more difficult to do it because again, you have to integrate it into everything else that you're doing. When this program came along it was the perfect opportunity. This is such a great way to do your MBA because it's more doable than if you did it in some other random institution. It is all about TELUS and you can easily integrate it into your daily job and everything that you do.
BZ: I definitely felt the same when this opportunity came up. Were there any aspects of your personal growth during the MBA that came as a surprise to you?
JS: Yes, there were a few courses that really stood out and played a significant role. The first one that comes to mind is the coaching course that Mark Colgate taught. I felt I really grew a lot with that particular one because it just reminded you that you have to have that open mindset all the time. I think it really taught me that I always have to be learning. Traditionally we always thought there was this linear progression to learning: high school then university and then you start your job. But going back to do my MBA when I was 45 was exciting and interesting! A lot of people asked me why would I go do the MBA now at this time in my life and my answer was always, why not? I could be 90 and I still want to do it, right? I'd rather be 92 with an MBA than a 92-year-old without an MBA. It was such an integral part of the whole learning journey. Just embracing it and wanting to have this learning mindset all the time, that has definitely infiltrated into the rest of my life and my career. I'm always interested in trying new things or doing new things or learning new things that it just sort of reinvigorated me.
BZ: Are there any other courses or instructors that had an instrumental impact on your journey?
JS: Yes, honestly most of the classes. Another one that comes to my mind is the International Business course. It really opened my mind up to the possibilities for TELUS, especially as we have become a global organization in recent years. It showed us things such as the most effective ways of operating globally and how we need to be sensitive to the cultural geographic differences among so many different countries across the world.
BZ: Have you noticed any distinctive leadership styles that women bring to table and how these styles contribute to the success of your team or to TELUS as a whole?
JS: Yes, my impression is that women seem less like they're out to compete and outdo one another and more want to work together and collaborate to achieve things together. Not to say that they're not ambitious, it's just that they're not necessarily out competing with another woman. They want to achieve it on their own merits and do well based on their own experience. With that, I also see that women love to be able to coach people while keeping that relationship where they're helping and supporting each other versus perhaps a more authoritarian relationship that you might see from a traditional approach.
I find women really empower one another in the organization. That's my perspective. We respect and support one another. I think when you see another woman doing really well you're cheering her on. But it's also helping you up your game. I love working with other amazing people because I learn from them. It just makes me want to do better as I have to lift up my game in order to be able to perform to that same standard.
BZ: Has mentorship or the coaching support you had through your career journey played a role in your career?
JS: Yes, having those coaches and mentors were so critical in my journey. The toughest coach but the one who drives the best performance has really been Darren, our CEO. You've got to love that high performance work environment. But if you have the right coach, they will push you to be the best that you can be, and you've got to love to work within that.
Darren has been an incredible mentor for me and also for the organization, we've all learned so much from him. I’ve also had a few really great managers earlier in my career who taught me a lot about business and delivering. I had one manager who told me one time to stop bringing him problems and start bringing him solutions. And I think of that a lot in my day to day. I want to jump on top of something and try to find a solution to it right away, sometimes almost to a fault. So, sometimes I need to step back and observe the situation and learn from it. But it’s these little things that we learn from each mentor that shape us as we progress in our career journey.
BZ: What are your thoughts on internal versus external coaches, do you have any preference for that?
JS: I actually think people should have both an external coach and an internal coach, if not multiple internal coaches. It’s because an internal coach really understands the culture and the nuances and the politics and how things work within the organization. They can also see more of you day to day (how you act and what you do) and then can coach you accordingly. On the other hand, the external coach is important too because they just bring new insight and fresh perspectives and different experiences that you can also learn from. I love sitting around a board table with external board members, because I learned so much by just watching people, how they act and what they say. Having both types of mentors in my life have been instrumental for my personal development and growth.
I'd also add that it’s important to be part of communities that support women. For example, at TELUS I helped co-found the Connections program which is our global network of women supporting women. We have it in Canada, but also internationally and I think that also helped as an adjacent organization to the MBA in supporting women to achieve great things. Additionally, it taught us all that we have a responsibility and accountability to help and support other women. I've continued to do that, helping coach people not only internally but also externally. I get a lot out of that as well because there's learning happening on both sides. There's huge value in it for both participants.
BZ: What advice would you give to current MBA students (or recent grads), especially those aspiring to leadership roles within TELUS or similar organizations?
JS: I would say whether you’re just starting your MBA or already graduated, you should make sure to put it to use and speak up to add value. Once you get back into your regular job, you should remember to regularly showcase the confidence you gained through MBA and put your learnings into practice. There's so many amazing people in the organization but sometimes they may not feel like they know enough to speak up like that, which plagued me for a lot of my career. I thought, ‘I'm not smart enough; I don’t have the experience that some of these other people do.’ But through MBA you learn that you have that responsibility and accountability to speak up and voice your opinion. Perhaps a lot of people are thinking it but maybe aren’t saying it. Or you think it and then someone else speaks up and says it and then you're mad at yourself that you didn't. So, it just gives you that sort of urgency to speak up, to drive.
BZ: What do you hope to be the lasting legacy of your career, both in terms of personal achievements and contributions to the organizations you've been a part of?
JS: I think I want my lasting legacy to be how we were able to really define TELUS’ social purpose and get the organization moving with that leadership in Social Capitalism; how we always take that into account with every decision that we make. I really feel that as a business and as leaders within that business we have an obligation to contribute to the social and economic health of our local communities because we're a business operating in that community. We expect people to be our customers in that community, so it's important that we created that culture within TELUS. Customers want to do business with a company that shares their values for community and environment. If we can have that mindset throughout the organization, we can unite with public organizations, not-for-profit, other private businesses, and academics and come together to address these social issues to leverage the best of what we all have to offer. Because I think the only way we’ll solve homelessness or food insecurity or unemployment or healthcare issues or all these other impending social issues that are facing the world is by working together. That's what I'd want my legacy to be. That I was able to help establish that within TELUS.
BZ: What message or advice would you like to share with aspiring female leaders within and outside of TELUS who are looking to do their MBA?
JS: I would say, first of all, if you work for TELUS and have the opportunity to do the MBA, do it no matter what. You have to jump on every single learning opportunity that you're given because it's a huge gift. Being able to fund your MBA and enable you to do it while you're still working here is just a gift that you have to embrace and love. The second thing I’d share is that you'll figure it out as you're getting through it. Yes, it's challenging but if it wasn't then everyone would be doing it. So yes, of course, it's challenging but the most fantastic part is that TELUS is so supportive and you’re also in amazing hands with the 番茄社区 faculty and staff. Again, when you work on things that have to do with your day-to-day job it doesn't seem as overwhelming.
I love the MBA Capstone projects where you get to work on a project pivotal to TELUS’ future and you get to drive such innovation. Some of our past Capstone projects have built new business units, such as TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods. I don't know why anyone wouldn’t want to do it as it’s so exciting. It’s something you will never ever regret doing.